Organic Chemistry I'd like to ask a question
Frequently Asked Questions
Q. Which course should I be enrolled in, CH241 or CH331 and lab?
A. It depends on what your future holds (which, of course, none of us know with total certainty!). The official rules for Oregon University System transfers are stated in the transfer policy copied below. Generally, I see it this way: if you plan to major in chemistry or another scientific field at an Oregon public institution, you will likely opt for the upper-division course. If you are in Organic because it is a specific program requirement in a program outside of the basic sciences (like natural resources) you may be able to take the course at the lower division. If you plan to transfer to an institution outside Oregon or if you go to a private school, you can likely enroll at the lower division.
In any case, it’s the institution who will accept your transfer who writes the rules. Consult them if you have any doubt at all.
Oregon University System Credit Transfer Policy:
Organic Chemistry
In Oregon, the transfer of organic chemistry credits has presented challenges
because it is offered at the lower-division (200-level) in Oregon community
colleges and at the upper-division (300-level) in Oregon University System (OUS)
institutions. Therefore, this policy specifies two ways in which credit transfer
can occur:
1. as a direct transfer of lower-division undergraduate credits, or
2. as upper-division credits according to the following guidelines.
In the absence of: (a) an individual OUS institution's policy exempting transfer
students from the American Chemical Society Organic Chemistry Examination noted
below, or (b) any other applicable agreement between an Oregon community college
and an OUS institution governing the transfer of organic chemistry courses,
the full-year, 200-level organic chemistry lecture and laboratory sequence from
an Oregon community college shall be transferred to an OUS institution as
upper-division credit equivalent to Chemistry 331/332 and any organic laboratory
course(s) associated with Chemistry 331/332, provided:
(a) the student receives a grade of C or better each term in the organic
chemistry sequence,
(b) the student takes the standardized American Chemical Society Organic
Chemistry Examination for the full-year organic course and scores at or above
the 50th percentile on a national ranking, and
(c) written verification of the score is provided by the community college to
the receiving OUS institution.
Further, the number of upper-division credits granted shall not exceed
the total combined credits for Chemistry 331/332 and any organic laboratory
course(s) associated with Chemistry 331/332 at the OUS institution to which the
courses are being transferred.
This policy was adopted by the Oregon University System Academic Council on May
20, 1999.
Office of Academic Affairs/OUS
May 26, 1999
Q. Is there a prerequisite for this course? Can I try to take it even if I don't meet the requirement?
A. The prerequisite is one year of college chemistry, which means CH104, 105 and 106 or 221, 222 and 223 at our institution. At other colleges you should prepare yourself with a year of General Chemistry. If you have not completed these courses, your chances of succeeding in Organic are reduced compared to the population of students who have properly prepared.
I can not force you to NOT enroll. However students who are not properly prepared can damage their own records when the gaps in their backgrounds get in the way of their learning. Equally frustrating to me is that these students tend to bring down the quality of the conversation in the classroom because they get hung up on issues that others in the class do not have.
Finally, note that many professional programs have specific requirements that include a year of General Chemistry. Pushing yourself into Organic before completing General Chemistry does not make the General Chemistry requirement disappear in these cases. You will be forced to go back and take it later.
If you have questions about what the prerequisite requirements mean to you, please see me so that we can find answers for you.
Q. How do I get an “A” in your class?
A. Organic Chemistry has a reputation on campuses across the country as a weed out course designed to make good students fail. They also may hear that it requires “tons of time” and memorization of a huge collection of reactions. As with most rumors there may be a kernel of truth to all this, but it is my hope you will find most of these statements misleading in describing my course. I am not saying the course is easy, but success is possible and you should not (and can not) score well purely because your short-term memory is abnormally good.
Organic chemistry is a young discipline with only around 150 years of history. It is highly empirical—meaning that it is closely tied to observations and the theory is not as complete as you might think. Historically, organic chemists had to learn that “Substance A reacts with B to produce C” without much underlying understanding, and elements of that approach persist today. Fortunately for you, in the last 15 years the idea of teaching Organic from what is called a mechanistic approach has become much more popular. The mechanistic approach requires a solid understanding of general chemistry and seeks to develop in students an ability to think through organic reactions and understand them. It’s more like “If Substance A and B are reacted, based on their structures it is reasonable to think they will react in way X to produce…..substance C.” Gaining an understanding of concepts so that you can do this requires patience, time, and effort.
But Organic chemistry becomes more like puzzle-solving in this system. It requires less rote memorization and additionally, it is FUN.
Oh! but the question is “how to get an A.” Students who do so usually exhibit the following behaviors:
1. They participate actively in class and make sure they understand everything. This occasionally requires making themselves vulnerable by asking what they fear are “dumb questions,” out loud in front of the group.
2. They work problems outside of class regularly and thoughtfully.
3. They talk chemistry with their peers, both to get help and to provide it whenever they can.
4. They read their text.
5. They show a sincere but not excessive interest in performing well on exams and quizzes. The best students do not usually obsess about scores. Rather, they keep their focus on learning the concepts, trusting that if they do so they will be ready when exams are in front of them.
6. They allow themselves to relax and have a bit of fun. A classroom full of people with good attitudes is really, really motivating to other students and to the instructor. Everyone learns more.
Try these things and report back to me—let me know what
else should be on this list once you’ve got you’re “A” in hand.
Q. OK, So I've done a term of Organic and I think I like this stuff. What opportunities are available to me if I want to learn more about the chemistry, learn more about how chemistry is applied in the real world, or gain more lab experience just because I think it's a good time?
A. Great news! There are opportunities out there if you are interested in pursuing them. My first recommendation is for you to travel off our campus to gain some experience in a different environment. From such an experience you can gain confidence and come to understand that organic chemistry is a language spoken by lots of people doing all sorts of things. Even with minimal experience there are some amazing opportunities that you are eligible for. Here are several examples from UO, in Eugene. Students have also found paying internships locally in chemistry-related businesses in previous years.
Remember: grades matter when you apply for these programs, but it is equally important to have demonstrated your curiosity and enthusiasm for studying and doing science. If I have seen you exhibit the sorts of skills that make for good scientific work (thoroughness, punctuality, good record-keeping, honesty, creativity etc.) I can tell people about this when they ask whether they should take you under their wing.
I say this to encourage you!
You should be investigating these opportunities as early as January of the year when you wish to do a summer internship. Many summer opportunities have deadlines early in Spring. Some places fill Internships until they have no more slots available on a first-come-first-served basis. You won't want to get caught wishing for an internship after the deadlines have passed.
Here is where Zelda keeps links to experiences such as those I am speaking of.......let me know how I can help you if you are interested.
Q. When I told my parent/partner I was thinking about studying chemistry, he/she said incredulously "What are you going to do with THAT?!" What do I say to people who do not see how my college education in science will (literally) pay off?
A. Chemists are employed in a wide variety of businesses, in government jobs, and in academic laboratories. An extensive resource resource for students who are considering their career options is compiled and maintained by the American Chemical Society, the premier society for professional chemists, within their website at this location. People with Chemistry and Chemical Engineering degrees get good wages and are very employable with a Bachelor ("4-year") degree. They work in various segments of Industry, including petroleum and pharmaceutical industries, and also can find employment with the Government and in Academia.
There are nice summaries of employment opportunities in a number of chemical areas at this address.
Choosing exactly what you want to do before you have any experience is just about impossible. Early on you will want to get experience of any kind. It is a valuable exercise to inform yourself about the possibilities that are out there and to start down a path toward something which may excite you. There are many opportunities to fine tune your training or change course. Don't be overly concerned with locking yourself out of certain fields as you get educated. Think instead like you are shopping for a career. Try things out and allow yourself to make changes later if something feels really wrong for you.
The short answer for the parent or spouse or for yourself--whoever is having doubts about the employability of someone who knows a lot of chemistry-- is: chemists are employable in a variety of situations in and out of the lab, and they can make good money.
Q. You said you were implementing some sort of Optional Grading system for the Quizzes this term. How does that work?
A. I implemented a system quite like this several years ago in my CH105 class, and my students really love it. It does take a little getting used to, though, and you have to get comfortable with the idea that you decide whether or not you want me to score your work. Here's what it looks like:
Your course grade is based on performance in several categories, one of which is Quizzes/HW. This category accounts for 30% of your course grade no matter how many points you attempt beyond the minimum (which I am setting at 70 points). The % score you earn in the category is established by doing a simple calculation, dividing the points you earn by the points you attempt (or 70, whichever is higher), and taking that factor times 100. Notice that it is the percent score within that category that matters, not the total number of points you earn. Your grade is maximized by maximizing your percent score within the category.
The benefits of this system are several:
No makeups are required for students who miss a quiz, they just miss it and don't attempt those points. Everyone else is guaranteed feedback immediately following the quiz. Quick, relevant feedback is good for student learning.
Occasional bad days can happen with no negative consequences. Just opt out of grading and relieve yourself of the pressure to perform, if you are feeling unwell or recognize during a quiz that you didn't prepare like you should have.
You will develop your ability to "know when you know it," which is important in all areas of life. Professors call this metacognition--it's the ability to think about how you think, and to learn how you learn. It may be uncomfortable the first few times you have to do it but it is a skill learned by practice. Learn to commit now to a course of action even when you are less than 100% sure of the consequences. I would dare to say that this one thing may separate the jobs of professionals from the jobs of laborers. Practice now while the stakes are small and the atmosphere is friendly. Some day you will find yourself without someone to encourage you gently or tell you how things will come out. You will be expected to be decisive. You will experience self-doubt. If you're an MD, someone's life could be at stake.
Here is how the system would work for 4 imaginary students, each of whom approaches the optional work differently:
Student A values the red-ink feedback, and takes all the quizzes except one, from a day they had to miss due to car trouble. They earn 85 points out of a possible 100, and therefore get a Quiz/HW Category score of 85%.
Student B is exceptional, and gets perfect scores on the first 7 quizzes. They now have 100% and have met the minimum point requirement, so they stop taking quizzes. Their Quiz/HW Category score is 100%.
Student C struggles through the first few quizzes, only achieving a 55% score by mid-term. But they keep at it and eventually take all the quizzes, lifting their percent score to 77%.
Student D skips a few quizzes at first because of poor preparation, and then late in the term gets sick enough to miss 2 more. They score 55 out of 60 attempted points, and earn 79% because they didn't attempt the minimum number of points, which is 70.
As you decide whether to submit the quizzes for grading, you will maximize your Category score by considering two things: (a) are you on track to meet the minimum number of attempted points, which is 70? and (b) will your score probably be better or worse than your current average for that category? I will not answer these questions for you.
What are the drawbacks?
You have to make hard decisions about grading, and you can not change your mind after you get your score from me.
If you are not very well disciplined about staying on track, you can dig yourself a pretty big hole by skipping too many quizzes.
You don't get feedback with the red pen (although you do get instant feedback after you take the quiz, provided you show up).
Q. I want more feedback. Why do you whine and refuse when we ask for solution sheets that show us the right answers?
A. I am checking your work almost constantly while we are in class, far more often than you would get it checked if I were standing up front and lecturing at you. This checking takes numerous forms:
The questions in the workbook are ingeniously constructed to corner you if you have conceptual misunderstandings. The author knows what the most common problems are for students, and he tests you on those concepts with specific traps to get you stuck if you don't understand correctly. If you can flow through an activity without much trouble you are doing great! Don't slow down!!
I am looking at the work of each of you as I wander around the room. If you need correcting I will tell you so. I may allow small errors to linger if I know you will be caught by the Activity questions, because you will learn more deeply and retain your knowledge better if you discover errors in your thinking yourself. And I want you to learn deeply and retain what you learn.
Answers on the board, or answers I ask you to provide to me verbally, and checking how quickly you are progressing through an Activity are all opportunities for me to check your work.
Homework provides another chance to see what you are thinking, but it tends to be less valuable because many of you guide your progress with an external source, like a friend who already knows chemistry, or a book, and because I can't see how much you had to struggle to get your answers.
When working in your group 4 people have to misunderstand the same way in order to not get "caught" in their misunderstanding. This is less likely to happen than if you are working alone.
That last point is why I discourage use of solutions manuals, keys, etc.. They tell you what the answer is and you will bend your thinking in order to get that answer. The right answer becomes the goal and you don't focus on utilizing what you already know to get yourself there. To do Organic Chem well you have to utilize logic, based on your understandings of chemical structure and reactivity. Knowing that an alcohol and an aldehyde react to produce an ester is really not the point, unless you want a career doing synthetic chemistry (in which case it's not enough). But knowing how chemical structure leads to particular reactivity, and being able to explain why, is a great context for learning about complex systems of many types. Including (I'm harping at the pre-meds again) the human body, which is composed primarily of organic structures and which is astoundingly complex.
Interestingly, your urge for feedback would be, in a standard lecture class, delivered with red ink and would negatively affect your grade. I would argue the method of providing feedback we are using is more effective and more humane. I wonder if it isn't noticeable to you because so much of my monitoring is silent, and the better you do the less correction you receive from me.